Follow along as I build a 79 Spider

The forum for all of your technical questions on your classic FIAT autos
whitehause
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First Name: Tim

Re: Follow along as I build a 79 Spider

Post by whitehause » Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:03 pm

The whole crossmember is being replaced with a new one that will be reinforced.
whitehause
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Re: Follow along as I build a 79 Spider

Post by whitehause » Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:11 pm

Well that's out
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whitehause
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Re: Follow along as I build a 79 Spider

Post by whitehause » Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:01 pm

Cold here in the Northeast, so getting some front end pieces cleaned up and painted.
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whitehause
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Re: Follow along as I build a 79 Spider

Post by whitehause » Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:36 pm

Hummm........I think I found your alignment problem Sir.
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SimcaBertone66
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Re: Follow along as I build a 79 Spider

Post by SimcaBertone66 » Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:25 pm

While you have it apart, consider a conversion to wheel studs.
Joe DeGasperis
whitehause
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Re: Follow along as I build a 79 Spider

Post by whitehause » Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:09 am

Other than ease of mounting the wheel with studs, is there really a big advantage in strength or durability? Call me nuts (no pun intended) I kind of like the bolts.
fp55scca
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Re: Follow along as I build a 79 Spider

Post by fp55scca » Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:33 am

--Tim, the primary reason you would want to convert to studs, particularly for aggressive use, is that your 40 year old axle hubs have very tired threads left in them. Every time you remove and replace the wheel, and re-torque, you wear the threads just a little more. By converting to studs, you put them in one time with Loctite and done...

--But, if you like, you can replace worn/damaged threads in your axles with Heli-coils. We had some debate here years ago about using a Helicoil for this application. If installed properly, the Helicoil will actually be stronger than a bolt/stud in a 40 year old 12x1.25mm worn thread.

--On the subject of studs, this is also true for our camboxes and manifolds, where you have a steel bolt going into aluminum. Early Spiders used studs in these applications, but Fiat later replaced them with bolts. (Fiat screwed a lot of stuff with later models). The only downside with studs on the intake is it makes it a bit harder to remove the intake. Easy fix: just use bolts only on the lower center of the intake manifold.

--Almost forgot: see Serpent Autosport (Charlie DeMarco) for at set of studs @ $32.00/set .... you can't beat it!
Jim Scurria
Norfolk, VA

1972 Fiat 124 Spider
1971 Spider - SCCA FP-24
1974 Fiat 124 Spider
whitehause
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Re: Follow along as I build a 79 Spider

Post by whitehause » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:44 pm

Crank welsh plugs removed and crank tapped for pipe plugs. Only broke one tap getting the threads cut in the forged crank.
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fp55scca
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Re: Follow along as I build a 79 Spider

Post by fp55scca » Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:36 am

--Good work Tim! Looks like you got the job accomplished with careful patience and determination! Be sure the crank receives a thorough cleaning before plugging again.

--After doing one of these, I've since left this job to a machinist, for several reasons. First, the old welch plugs are removed, then the crank is soaked to loosen the crud in the interior reaches of the journals. Then then the journals are probed to loosen the crud, and rinsed, and then tapped. After tapping, the crank is hot-washed again, and rinsed, and then plugs inserted. Always use Loctite, and always stake the plugs.
Jim Scurria
Norfolk, VA

1972 Fiat 124 Spider
1971 Spider - SCCA FP-24
1974 Fiat 124 Spider
cstorry
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Re: Follow along as I build a 79 Spider

Post by cstorry » Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:06 pm

Any thoughts on converting to 12x1.5 studs while you are at it ?

I'm into rallying and we're often in a hurry when changing wheels and I'm told that the M12x1.25 fine thread is easier to cross-thread than M12x1.5 so lots of teams use the studs with M12x1.25 screwed into the hub and M12x1.5 and appropriate nuts on the other end.

Maybe not applicable here ...

Waiting on brake upgrade for my integrale then will look to upgrade from wheel bolts to studs of one form or other

Chuck


fp55scca wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:33 am
--Tim, the primary reason you would want to convert to studs, particularly for aggressive use, is that your 40 year old axle hubs have very tired threads left in them. Every time you remove and replace the wheel, and re-torque, you wear the threads just a little more. By converting to studs, you put them in one time with Loctite and done...

--But, if you like, you can replace worn/damaged threads in your axles with Heli-coils. We had some debate here years ago about using a Helicoil for this application. If installed properly, the Helicoil will actually be stronger than a bolt/stud in a 40 year old 12x1.25mm worn thread.

--On the subject of studs, this is also true for our camboxes and manifolds, where you have a steel bolt going into aluminum. Early Spiders used studs in these applications, but Fiat later replaced them with bolts. (Fiat screwed a lot of stuff with later models). The only downside with studs on the intake is it makes it a bit harder to remove the intake. Easy fix: just use bolts only on the lower center of the intake manifold.

--Almost forgot: see Serpent Autosport (Charlie DeMarco) for at set of studs @ $32.00/set .... you can't beat it!
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