Garage building thoughts, aesthetics & ultimate shop layout

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rridge
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Re: Garage building thoughts, specifically prefab/metal & aesthetics

Post by rridge » Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:32 pm

Looks great. A couple of intial reactions. Keeping roof valleys leak free is a challenge, particularly on hipped roofs. Generous and careful flashing backed up by a membrane is the way to go. Also pay extra attention to rain guttering at the base of the valleys where the runoff is concentrated and where gutter debris collects quickly.

Speaking of rain, careful attention to grading and drainage is needed when house and detached garage share a large paved area. You need positive drainage away from both structures.

Using ground floor windows in the garage has two drawbacks. Large attractive standalone garages are attractive to thieves because tools are so easily converted to cash. Windows are an easy entry point. Also, the windows consume wall space on the inside and there is never enough wall space for storage in a garage. If natural light is the objective consider using short fixed windows at the top of the wall tucked under the overhang.
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Re: Garage building thoughts, specifically prefab/metal & aesthetics

Post by cgranju » Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:42 pm

Thanks.

Yeah, the geotech for the slope behind the garage will be a challenge, as will routing drainage (roof & surface ....and groundwater) will also be a bit of a challenge. Otherwise the existing driveway of vast concrete is sloped rather well except two unfortunate low spots immediately in front of the existing garage/carport. That said, as a civil engineer with a specialty in stormwater/water resources, I will have to slink away in shame if this thing has drainage problems!

Windows...yeah, I know, double (or triple) edged sword! Part of the design charge is to NOT make it look like a garage and generally lead the typical smash & grabber to keep on driving when they see our place. Thus 2 doors, not 3, etc. Though at present this is a relatively lo crime area, bars may be in order ultimately as we may no longer be hiding objects of value in plain sight, if that makes sense.

I'd love to hear thoughts on headroom.
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Re: Garage building thoughts, specifically prefab/metal & aesthetics

Post by rridge » Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:41 am

As you probably know, 12 ft. is a conventional ceiling height spec for a home garage with lift and storage under lift but nothing shouts "home garage" like 12 ft. sidewalls. Getting them down to 10 or even 9ft under a pitched roof with no second floor is possible with clever design, scissor trusses etc. A complicating factor is overhead door position since they compromise ceiling height when open.

Most of us can't apply much force with the big muscles of the back and shoulders once our arms are fully extended. When work gets much more than a foot above my head I start looking around for a low stool. Extended work with hands above head requires frequent rest breaks or I simply loose dexterity. Working underneath you'll probably want the car as low as possible while providing head clearance for much of your work. I'm not convinced that 12 ft. is a hard requirement. Perhaps that's your real question.

Thinking about garage design and Fiats always brings to mind Damon Kane, an architect and serious X1/9 collector, whom we lost some years ago. He would have been all over this.
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Re: Garage building thoughts, specifically prefab/metal & aesthetics

Post by cgranju » Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:01 am

rridge wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:41 am

Most of us can't apply much force with the big muscles of the back and shoulders once our arms are fully extended. When work gets much more than a foot above my head I start looking around for a low stool. Extended work with hands above head requires frequent rest breaks or I simply loose dexterity. Working underneath you'll probably want the car as low as possible while providing head clearance for much of your work. I'm not convinced that 12 ft. is a hard requirement. Perhaps that's your real question.
How to deal with the garage door is indeed a question. Yes, we were trying to work with scale & sort of burying the first few feet of the garage into the ground line so it would not have the appearance of being so tall. I'm sure I'm not fooling anyone with it.

for actual working on a car, I would think that barring a few jobs where it's so nice with a lift to have full height (exhaust/driveshaft come to mind), most of the time a few feet is perfect. the ulterior plan is to be able to stack, so there I need more height, but 10' might be fine and that adds up as far as cost.

Besides our own aesthetics, we are limited in height by the peak elevation of our house unless we attach this to the house (which we considered & may still do under a different plan) or seek a variance w/ a board of zoning appeals (and is doubtful to be granted). We talked about ways to hide the interior height, but ultimately decided the complexity would throw it way out of budget.

It's fun working on/with the design. On the other hand, around here you can go a bit out into the country & buy land with ample workshop/garage space like this almost thrown in for free, but alas, we are here...
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Re: Garage building thoughts, specifically prefab/metal & aesthetics

Post by cgranju » Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:29 pm

So, I'm hitting this old thread of my own again. After a multitude of delays, setbacks, varying design & cost estimate issues, I'm back to the original 12' interior height design & actually I've worked out a grading plan that ends up making my yard much more usable (plus makes for an awesome "crow's nest" spot on the property for my younger kids to build a fort). So, we expect to be permitted & breaking ground in a few weeks now. With the larger stuff behind me in the process, I've had a moment to think about layout (already wish it were larger) and how to best use the space, where I should locate a lift (or a 2 post & later a 4 post), etc. Shorter term needs include some ideas I've spoken w/ the builder & architect about...beefing up trusses to locate hanging shelves (Fiat parts bins!) and compressor placement.

On the topic of compressor placement, the builder suggested locating the compressor in the attic & then having lines drop from the ceiling. Is this a thing these days? It sounds like a nice way to save floor space but lugging any air compressor I would actually want to use all the way into an attic space sounds pretty unlikely. At the moment, a dedicated "shed" outside for a nice, large upright compressor seems the key.

Any other cool shop details I should think about?
Chris Granju
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Re: Garage building thoughts, aesthetics & ultimate shop layout

Post by SimcaBertone66 » Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:55 pm

A good sounding music system ..... A dedicated HazMat products locker .. keep all the nasty stuff in one secure place. Overhead trolley /crane for pulling and putin in things …. If it were me it would need a lot metal fabrication stiff, metal welding table, oh well have fun … post photos ….
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Re: Garage building thoughts, aesthetics & ultimate shop layout

Post by cgranju » Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:49 am

I expect to get a couple kitchen type stainless tables for work benches, but a proper welding table (I have a portable one that has served it's purpose) is nice. I'm still not sure how I'll want to lay out shop/floor/storage/work/parking space & beyond some basic stuff that will impact how it's built, I figured I'd do it by feel once i'm in it.

It will definitely have a good sound system. It might even have a TV since our basement has seemed to become a repository for cast-off perfectly good LCDs in the family & I guess every now & then there's something worth watching on TV.

Hoist & trolley is an interesting thought. With open spans of 30' & 40' I need to think about how it would work. A quick 'net search seemed to suggest hanging a beam from the trusses could be an option. I guess for anything I reasonably anticipate, 500 lbs capacity is enough (which means what in terms of a factor of safety? 2000 lbs?). Thanks for planting the seed. Unless I just opt for a rolling A-frame (a la Harbor Freight), this is one to build in.
Chris Granju
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Re: Garage building thoughts, aesthetics & ultimate shop layout

Post by miker » Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:19 pm

We just finished a whole-house remodel and an expansion of a small two-car garage with a little extra depth. It's still not a big garage so every cu. ft. counts. I was going to put the compressor in the attic and was talked out of it. Noise, extra stress on the rafters, getting the thing up for service, etc. What I did instead is tuck it in the driver's side front corner of where I park a car. It's a dead corner, the compressor doesn't get in the way of opening the car door. The I used RapidAir to route lines where I wanted them. So far, so good.
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Re: Garage building thoughts, aesthetics & ultimate shop layout

Post by fiatrn » Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:57 am

Modern oil-less compressors are obnoxiously loud. Putting it outside (if access and keeping it weather proof are possible) sounds like a great plan. If not, can you wall it off inside? Bury it in that berm behind the garage?

A trolley/hoist seems cool, but how many times will you actually need and use that? Especially to justify the cost. Will you pull that many engines? (though i once suspended a Scorpion from a ceiling, and lowered the body onto the engine/trans/subframe - worked great!

other ideas: Awesome lighting, a floor drain for washing cars inside, a giant dry-erase board, side mounted garage door openers (no center track!), a parts washer...
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Re: Garage building thoughts, aesthetics & ultimate shop layout

Post by davedecker4 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:58 am

Anchor points in the floor. Easy to put in before concrete.
Front and/or rear corners, possibly one in sunken box in middle.
Might come in handy later
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