Mileage comparo

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bartigue
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Re: Mileage comparo

Post by bartigue » Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:42 am

mikehynes wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:09 pm
I would be interested in understanding how the unions influenced the well being of the auto industry in that period? I believe that most of the brands that left the US market were from countries with very strong unions.
A combination of labor and politics collided in Europe in the late 70s to such an extent Italy, France, and Spain were on the tipping point of communism. There is a good show on the Agnelli family detailing much of this. Keep in mind the company didn’t exactly have a caring owner at the time.
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Re: Mileage comparo

Post by rridge » Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:39 pm

The strongest industrial unions in Europe are in Germany and Sweden. That also were you'll find the strongest management teams, the best vocational and engineering training programs, the highest living standards and the most automation.

Despite the emissions scandal, VW overtook Toyota in 2016 to become the worlds largest auto producer. They are a public company, though various branches of the Porsche family have controlled its management for many years. However VW rose from the ashes of WW2 under state ownership and the government of Lower Saxony continues to control a chunk of the voting stock. My understanding is that the union votes those shares.
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Re: Mileage comparo

Post by davedecker4 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:38 pm

Earlier, I did not mean to say I distrusted a Fiat over 5yo, just the odometer reading on it or any old car. The Fiat, (especially the engine) was quite reliable compared to most cars of the time. Most cars (especially US brands) were quite unreliable in the 70's. How many spiders are still on the road? When driving your spider, how many other 70's cars do you see driving around?

Unions tended to do poorly, (for themselves, the product, and society) here and elsewhere, when the mob saw all that money in the retirement funds and thought they could better invest it. Perhaps in a desert oasis where people could bring their excess cash. Of course the return on investment tended not to come back to the original source.

The Japanese ate everybody's lunch with better management. They stole proven designs, implemented good management learned from a variety of sources, built a consistent product with better production methods and consistent quality control that no one else was willing to invest in, and kept at it until it sold and more would invest in these ideas. Early Japanese cars did not have more options, they had less. Their idea was to build it basic, but good. And to always build one less than there was demand for. The opposite of the Detroit philosophy. It was only later that they added options, etc.

Everyone keeps thinking of and comparing late 80's and early 90's Japanese cars to 70's Fiats. The Miata didn't come until 88/89. Sure there were a couple, but you had to be really in the know, to know that only a year or two before you could have went to a highly specialized dealer and spend a fortune on a late Bertone or few years earlier on the Pinin (which removed the backseat and the responsible/kiddie justification over other roadsters). Of course you could still track down one of the last Alfa spiders, if you could afford it and find one of the remaining dealers.

An 82 Honda was nowhere near as reliable as the modern 500. It was a rock compared to a Ford Granada, Chevy Citation, or Chrysler's K cars however. And it was not really available with any options, save air conditioning if you were really lucky to find one and lived where it was required. Power windows, leather interior, 4wheel discs, mags, etc? Forget about it. My 77 Lancia Beta HPE came with all that and more, plus the venerable twin cam the Japanese would not make widely available until years later.
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Re: Mileage comparo

Post by SimcaBertone66 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:21 pm

The freakin brainpower to take a thread about car stuff, off track into a discussion of the geo political and industrial changes from the red brigade to the Italian labor unions .. yew .. In 1982 I was in Bologna passing through the train station, on the way going to Ravenna , my wife pointed out that brigata rossa blew up the joint in 1980 ... my cousin constantly referred to sciopero or strikes every other day and lots of marches and rallies in the streets of Rome ... strikes and the unions ... he was retired by then .. it was "fun" to watch in a sidewalk café, drinking a doppio caffe... fond memories I was in Rome in 2012... there was demonstration of every union private sanitation work in the entire country, every region marched with their own banners... the caffe at the mocha d'oro was still excellent
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Re: passing Bologna

Post by rridge » Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:01 pm

Joe, The folks in Ravenna own some neat old Fiats but I think this thread winds closer to Bologna.
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Re: Mileage comparo

Post by SimcaBertone66 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:06 pm

Or BALOONY ON WHITE
... I love Ravenna ... making me sad ...
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Re: Mileage comparo

Post by friedman » Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:00 am

Ah, the typical thread drift, not that I had any specific direction when I posted. The closest I ever got to Italy was in 1967 when I went to Case Western Reserve university and the dorms were next door to the little Italy section of Cleveland.

I think I'm done with this thread.

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