WTH Spider Rear Racing Suspension!

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ST3Racer
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First Name: Bill

Re: WTH Spider Rear Racing Suspension!

Post by ST3Racer » Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:59 pm

Dave,
The 125 series 1608cc engine is a nearly perfect 1.6L. 80mm bore and stroke, smooth, and will rev like crazy. Unfortunately, most of them are used up, and parts support for either Forged pistons, or Forged rods, or known good internals (cranks, etc.), make them very hard to build up for racing.

The 132 series 1756, and 1995cc engines, are better supported for building to race spec. However, with Venolia having gone out of the piston business, I am waiting for a new piston vendor. A good supplier of mine is working on a new piston supplier. What works will be fine as the stock bore is the same for both sizes. Rods are available from Carrillo, Pauter, and Crawford for either size engine.

The 1608 I referred to earlier, was in my ITC '72. The 1608 was the best engine for that car in that class, and I procured as many as I could. The IT classes were very light in prep, and stock C.R. pistons were used. I used Kolbenschmidt cast pistons for the racing 1608, and 9.8 C.R. Kolbenschmidts for my street car's 1756cc. Good pistons - mostly NOS and mostly gone, sadly.

When I ran my racer in EP, I used the 1995cc throughout, even though I could have used a 1608cc. Better torque from the 2L. The 1756cc was the FP engine - go figure, and the one required now for Vintage. The 1756cc will produce about the same HP, but is down on torque. The 1.8L will rev, in race form, up to 9000 rpm, well beyond the 2L, which I only took to 8000 rpm.
Bill McMahan
Parker, Colorado
'69 124 Spider 2L ex EP racer, ex Volumex NASA ST3 Racecar - retired
'69 rebodied with '79 backdated chassis as '72 DP 1.8L Vintage Racer
'74 124 Abarth Stradale Replica
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vandor
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Re: WTH Spider Rear Racing Suspension!

Post by vandor » Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:20 pm

ST3Racer wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:26 am
I couldn't do this without you Csaba, and Autoricambi - Thanks for doing what you do! Now, if you could get some 131 gearbox rear mounts, that would be perfect. I haven't seen them in 8-10 years.
Thank you for your kind words!

I have not looked for 131 mounts for a while, I will ask around.
Csaba
Parts: http://www.autoricambi.us
Cars: http://italiancarclub.com/csaba/Fiat.html
'71 124 Spider, much modified
'72 124 Coupe, new project, ex-Pete, ex-Eli, ex-Jack car (all Mira members)
'73 124 Wagon, no floors
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ST3Racer
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Re: WTH Spider Rear Racing Suspension!

Post by ST3Racer » Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:25 pm

Csaba,
I would appreciate that. It is an essential piece for a 131 gearbox swap. Both for fast street, and a must for racing.
Bill McMahan
Parker, Colorado
'69 124 Spider 2L ex EP racer, ex Volumex NASA ST3 Racecar - retired
'69 rebodied with '79 backdated chassis as '72 DP 1.8L Vintage Racer
'74 124 Abarth Stradale Replica
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atruscott
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Re: WTH Spider Rear Racing Suspension!

Post by atruscott » Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:04 am

+1 on that.... otherwise I fear fabrication is in order in my near future
1960 Autobianchi Bianchina Transformabile
1970 238 Camper OHV
1974 124 Wagon TC
1974 124 Special TC
1975 124 Sport Coupe
1976 124 Sport Spider (The Racer)
1981 Spider 2000 (The Resurrected)
1985 Pininfarina Azzurra
2017 124 Spider Abarth Elaborazione
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lanciahf
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Re: WTH Spider Rear Racing Suspension!

Post by lanciahf » Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:56 am

I was able to get the correct 131 rear mount from Danny at Fun Imported Toys.
Ralph DeLauretis
2013 Fiat 500 POP
1984 Pininfarina Spider
Recovering Scorpion Owner.
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engineerted
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Re: WTH Spider Rear Racing Suspension!

Post by engineerted » Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:04 pm

Hi, Bill I just came across this thread, been on vacation (low tech, no internet, phone signal ?Nope) I almost built the Baucom rear setup but ending up doing my own adjustable three link plus an adjustable panhard bar. This allow me to adjust Rear roll center height and roll steer. I see this thread has moved to talking about transmissions. So do you need to run the stock box or at least something from Fiat? I had some discussion off line with Jim about Face plating my gears, thus now making them dog tooth engagements. I really only use two gears at the track i race, so i am getting the 3-4 gears modified. See link to libertygears, they are local to the Detroit metro area, so easy for me to drop of a spare box for them to work with.

www.libertysgears.com
1978 124 steet car
1974 124 EProd race car
Farmington Hills, MI
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ST3Racer
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Re: WTH Spider Rear Racing Suspension!

Post by ST3Racer » Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:57 pm

Ted,
What is the Baucom rear set-up? It's not what I have, as I co-designed mine with the help of (can't remember his name, dammit) who used to host firebreathingfiats.com, who is up in B.C. Canada. He used to race a 131...... get me some Aracept!

Any three link will work better that the Long Arm, Short Arm Four Link stock to the Spiders, and coupes! The Panhard will still give a "rocking motion" to up and down travel, but the tri-link is the key.

If you know what the Baucom's use, please share.
Bill McMahan
Parker, Colorado
'69 124 Spider 2L ex EP racer, ex Volumex NASA ST3 Racecar - retired
'69 rebodied with '79 backdated chassis as '72 DP 1.8L Vintage Racer
'74 124 Abarth Stradale Replica
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ST3Racer
Posts: 123
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Re: WTH Spider Rear Racing Suspension!

Post by ST3Racer » Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:58 pm

Ralph,
Thanks for the heads up. I will check with Danny at Fun...
Bill McMahan
Parker, Colorado
'69 124 Spider 2L ex EP racer, ex Volumex NASA ST3 Racecar - retired
'69 rebodied with '79 backdated chassis as '72 DP 1.8L Vintage Racer
'74 124 Abarth Stradale Replica
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ST3Racer
Posts: 123
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Last Name: McMahan
First Name: Bill

Re: WTH Spider Rear Racing Suspension!

Post by ST3Racer » Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:57 pm

Ted,
Sorry I didn't answer your questions about gearboxes in Vintage. The 131 gearbox, as a FIAT component, is OK. Also, for Brakes, they need to be FIAT parts, so 124 fronts on the front and rear is OK also. No Wilwoods - bummer, as I have two sets of fronts. Oh well, the FIAT 124 front calipers work well with double Masters, which I do have, and that is OK, also.

Interesting about the face plating. A 131 gearbox with straight cut gears - I wonder how much, and if they are redoing the gear teeth, can they also alter the ratios??? Maybe I'll give them a call, as gearbox ratios are open in Vintage. What gearbox are you using?
Bill McMahan
Parker, Colorado
'69 124 Spider 2L ex EP racer, ex Volumex NASA ST3 Racecar - retired
'69 rebodied with '79 backdated chassis as '72 DP 1.8L Vintage Racer
'74 124 Abarth Stradale Replica
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atruscott
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Re: WTH Spider Rear Racing Suspension!

Post by atruscott » Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:08 am

lanciahf wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:56 am
I was able to get the correct 131 rear mount from Danny at Fun Imported Toys.
Will call him - thanks!

On suspension - and I’m not a serious racer by any stretch of the imagination - I’ve found an extra long arm on the inside of the stock arms gives a substantive stiffening of the rear suspension under cornering, while maintaining the stock feel in a straight line.
1960 Autobianchi Bianchina Transformabile
1970 238 Camper OHV
1974 124 Wagon TC
1974 124 Special TC
1975 124 Sport Coupe
1976 124 Sport Spider (The Racer)
1981 Spider 2000 (The Resurrected)
1985 Pininfarina Azzurra
2017 124 Spider Abarth Elaborazione
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