Follow along as I build a 79 Spider

The forum for all of your technical questions on your classic FIAT autos
whitehause
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Last Name: White
First Name: Tim

Re: Follow along as I build a 79 Spider

Post by whitehause » Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:57 pm

fp55scca wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:36 am
--Good work Tim! Looks like you got the job accomplished with careful patience and determination! Be sure the crank receives a thorough cleaning before plugging again.

--After doing one of these, I've since left this job to a machinist, for several reasons. First, the old welch plugs are removed, then the crank is soaked to loosen the crud in the interior reaches of the journals. Then then the journals are probed to loosen the crud, and rinsed, and then tapped. After tapping, the crank is hot-washed again, and rinsed, and then plugs inserted. Always use Loctite, and always stake the plugs.
No....it was lots of swearing and the will to give up :D

Yeah, if I was doing these on a regular basis, to the machine shop it would go. Since the crank is in perfect shape (surprisingly) I figured I'd give it a go. I know now why it's in such good shape, those babies are tough!
As far as cleaning, I have time and patience for that. I have a parts washer with a submersible tube heating element if I need to got it hot. Call me crazy but I actually like cleaning parts. Kind of a challenge I guess to see how shiny I can get an old crusty part. My garage has as much cleaning equipment in it as wrenching equipment. Parts washer, bead blaster, soda blaster, buffers, brushes, solvents. I actually build my motors inside in my bar room. No chance of unwanted condensation from temp changes in the garage, great lighting, and well, it's a bar room....lol
whitehause
Posts: 235
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:01 pm
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First Name: Tim

Re: Follow along as I build a 79 Spider

Post by whitehause » Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:32 pm

cstorry wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:06 pm
Any thoughts on converting to 12x1.5 studs while you are at it ?

I'm into rallying and we're often in a hurry when changing wheels and I'm told that the M12x1.25 fine thread is easier to cross-thread than M12x1.5 so lots of teams use the studs with M12x1.25 screwed into the hub and M12x1.5 and appropriate nuts on the other end.

Maybe not applicable here ...

Waiting on brake upgrade for my integrale then will look to upgrade from wheel bolts to studs of one form or other

Chuck

I have no practical experience with this, but it seem to make complete sense to me that the coarser threads would be easier to thread accurately in a hurry. Maybe others can chime in on the torque aspect of this since coarser threads will tend to loosen easier than fine, but if you use separate nuts on each change that are set up with some loc tite ,(the solid stick type they sell )already applied to the new nuts, then I would think that would help overcome any loosening issues.
fp55scca
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Re: Follow along as I build a 79 Spider

Post by fp55scca » Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:41 pm

cstorry wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:06 pm
Any thoughts on converting to 12x1.5 studs while you are at it ?

I'm into rallying and we're often in a hurry when changing wheels and I'm told that the M12x1.25 fine thread is easier to cross-thread than M12x1.5 so lots of teams use the studs with M12x1.25 screwed into the hub and M12x1.5 and appropriate nuts on the other end.
------------------------------------------------------------
--Chuck, that would sure be an option. I considered it years ago because there are so many more lug nut options available in 1.5; but ultimately stayed with the 1.25. Never really had a cross-thread problem, but I start all lug-nuts by hand, and use low torque setting on fun, then final torque by torque wrench.

--Unless we've really screwed something up, we never go "pit-stop" fast in SCCA road racing. Sometimes sit on 4 jackstands (with rain pending) awaiting final decision on tire selection.....that's about as fast as it goes.
Jim Scurria
Norfolk, VA

1972 Fiat 124 Spider
1971 Spider - SCCA FP-24
1974 CSA Abarth Replica
1981 Fiat Spider Ratrod
whitehause
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First Name: Tim

Re: Follow along as I build a 79 Spider

Post by whitehause » Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:05 pm

Happiness is a floor full of new parts. First shipment is in. And no the nitrous isn't for the Fiat.....maybe :o
The 2 long boxes are the cams, wasn't going to take them out for a picture though.
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whitehause
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First Name: Tim

Re: Follow along as I build a 79 Spider

Post by whitehause » Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:02 pm

Finally got my plugs, had to order them since no one had 7/16 x 14 in stock. Nice fit with room to stake them in place. BTW, if anyone is planning to do this let me know. I had to order 10 plugs, but only needed 4.
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whitehause
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Re: Follow along as I build a 79 Spider

Post by whitehause » Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:29 pm

Cutting off the mech fuel pump lobe, so this is my electric alternative.
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fp55scca
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Re: Follow along as I build a 79 Spider

Post by fp55scca » Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:19 pm

--Tim, you may want to make some modifications to the replacement crossmember when it arrives. I have lost many of the pictures I once had involving crossmember modifications and reinforcements, but the concepts are fundamental.

--The Fiat Spider crossmember is subject to cracking due to stress where the control arms attach to the horizontal bolts of the crossmember. These areas of the crossmember can be reinforced, including doublers in he weak areas, while at the same time replacing the bolts with longer ones to allow for more negative camber adjustment.

--There are a number of ways to do it. Here are a few samples. The original bolts are removed. The bolts on the forward side are straight forward, the rear bolts involve cutting into the wall of the crossmember. When complete, a doubler is welded over the area.

--After original bolts are removed in this example, a piece of 1" x 1" square tube, plus a 1" x 1" angle is inserted to reinforce the original crossmember, and longer bolts are substituted. If you want to lower the front end at the same time, to counter bump-steer, a piece of 1" x 2" square tube can be used to raise the bolts by about 3/4". This involves cutting the crossmember a little differently. I don't have pics of that, but Ted R. or Joe D. many have some? Let me know if you have questions.
Crossmember Mod-3.jpg
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Jim Scurria
Norfolk, VA

1972 Fiat 124 Spider
1971 Spider - SCCA FP-24
1974 CSA Abarth Replica
1981 Fiat Spider Ratrod
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davedecker4
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Re: Follow along as I build a 79 Spider

Post by davedecker4 » Wed Feb 27, 2019 3:16 am

Not seeing how the 1x2" fits here. Can ya gimme a clue?
Dave Decker
a 'couple' Fiats and Lancia's
whitehause
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Re: Follow along as I build a 79 Spider

Post by whitehause » Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:08 am

Any thoughts on seam welding the whole crossmember, or are the spot welds enough as long as the trouble spots are addressed? I've also seen a couple that had a thicker plate added across the bottom.
fp55scca
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Re: Follow along as I build a 79 Spider

Post by fp55scca » Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:13 am

davedecker4 wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 3:16 am
Not seeing how the 1x2" fits here. Can ya gimme a clue?
----------------------------------------------
--Yeah Dave, I get ya. I hesitated to even bring it up without a pic. Take a look at the 1" square tube, and envision the 1" x 2" in its place, in a vertical orientation. The vertical face of the crossmember that meets the rail is cut away, and replaced with the 1" x 2" square tube, and shimming as necessary. Then the holes for the horizontal bolts can be moved up about 3/4". This raises the attachment point of the lower control arm, which counters the effect of shorter springs. Does any of this make sense?
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Jim Scurria
Norfolk, VA

1972 Fiat 124 Spider
1971 Spider - SCCA FP-24
1974 CSA Abarth Replica
1981 Fiat Spider Ratrod
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